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Thread: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

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    Default Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus




    Evidence for precolumbian connections between Polynesia and South America are trickling in these days; but what kind of connection and what is the evidence?

    Background


    Back in the mid-20th century, the idea that pre-Columbian voyages across the Pacific took place was promulgated by a small group of scientists and enthusiasts. Best known was the Norwegian adventurer Thor Heyerdahl, who built the raft KonTiki and sailed it across the Pacific in 1947, proving that it was possible. On the scientific side, American archaeologist Betty Meggers looked at the ceramic pots recovered from the 2500 BC site of Valdivia and saw body form and ceramic decoration similarities to the Middle Jomon period of Japan.

    But neither of these ideas really made it into the mainstream, partly because, at least in Heyerdahl's case, they were couched in terms of population origins--that is to say, they were part of a discussion about whether the Polynesians originated from the Americas or vice versa. Further, crossing the Pacific with limited technology is not an easy journey by a long shot, as Heyerdahl showed; and for substantial cultural contact you need lots of people--basically, a colonization force that is not warranted by any substantial data anywhere to day.

    While the ideas of massive colonization of either side of the Pacific have faded, the notion of contact of some sort between the South American coast and Polynesia is beginning to take on serious scholarship. Two recent areas of research have produced information concerning the trans-pacific crossings: sweet potatoes and chickens.

    Sweet Potatoes and Trans-Pacific Voyages

    Sweet potatoes (Ipomomea batatas) are a New World domesticate root crop, that originated in northern South America or Central America about 2500 years ago. Most of the world uses this very tasty and nutritious crop, and most of the world got the sweet potato due to the efforts of the Spanish and Portuguese explorers who found the sweet potato in Peru and Mexico and exported it to Europe and Africa. However, there is secure evidence that several of the Polynesian islands got the sweet potato long before Columbus and Magellan set sail.

    In a 2008 article called Modeling the prehistoric arrival of the sweet potato in Polynesia, Alvaro Montenegro, Chris Avis, and Andrew Weaver describe a series of computer simulations of accidental drift voyages from different points in the Americas. Basically, researchers used ECCO data of hypothetical wind and tide currents for the Pacific and then hypothesized rafts setting off from the Pacific coastlines of North and South America. Their hypothetical movements were recorded, and, if a drifting vessel hit one of the target areas within 180 days--target areas being various islands or island groups in the Pacific--then the trip was recorded as successful.

    And, of the 23 targets established in the Pacific, indeed 19 were hit, 16% with at least 1% probability, and eight with 2% or better. The most probable (11.45%) was from Central American and Mexico to the Marshall Islands. An interesting paper, and well worth a look.
    Polynesian Chickens in Chile

    Chickens, on the other hand, originated in southeast Asia. The latest scoop on chickens is that they were domesticated from the red junglefowl, probably in Thailand, and probably about 8,000 years ago. They are believed to have reached the Polynesian islands about 3,000 years ago, brought by the Lapita expansion. Traditionally, it was thought that chickens were brought to the Americas by the Spanish or Portuguese, but Pizarro reported that when he reached Peru in 1532 the Incas already had domesticated chickens, and they played an important role in religious ceremonies.

    A 2007 paper written by Alice Storey and colleagues reports on excavations at the site of El Arenal-1. El Arenal-1 is located in south central Chile, and is part of the El Vergel Cultural Complex of horticulturalists, dated between AD 1000 and 1500. Fifty chicken bones were recovered from the site, representing a minimum of five birds. The bones themselves were radiocarbon dated, and returned a calibrated age range of AD 1304-1424.

    Most interestingly, DNA studies indicate that these chickens were identical to chicken bones from two prehistoric sites in the Pacific: Mele Havea in Tonga (2000-1550 years old), and Fatu-ma-Futi in American Samoa, which dates to about the same period as El Arenal.

    In 2008, a paper in PNAS by Gongora et al. contradicted the findings of Storey et al. Read about it here: Chickens and Trans-Pacific Crossings, Part 2. However, more recent work has tended to support the findings of Storey et al.

    Coconuts and Bottle Gourds

    New (and not so new) evidence supporting these trans-pacific crossings has been examined concerning the presence of both coconuts and bottle gourds.

    DNA studies of coconuts (Cocos nucifera) growing today in Ecuador and reported by the Spanish conquistadors indicates that they originated in the Philippines, and were brought to Ecuador by seafarers ~2250 years BP (Baudouin and Lebrun 2009).

    The earliest bottle gourds (Lagenaria siceraria) have been discovered in southwest Ecuador dated to 9300 BP and they are believed to have originated there. The bottle gourd appears in Polynesia by ca. AD 1000.

    Molecular data suggests, but doesn't yet prove, that the Polynesian bottle gourds are hybrids of the South American and Indonesia forms.

    Trans-Pacific Crossings

    It would seem that there is solid evidence for precolumbian connections between Polynesia and the Americas by approximately AD 1300, and perhaps earlier still. What kind of connection seems at presently likely to be accidental and fleeting, and at this point it is wise to remain cautious--but developments such as these should be watched for in the months and years to come.
    More of this article on Kris Hurst's About page
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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus


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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    In his book The Wayfarers: Why ancient wisdom matters in the modern world, author Wade Davis writes about the extraordinary navigational abilities of Polynesian seafarers. Navigators or wayfinders as they are called, have the highest status in Polynesian society. They are raised from childhood to learn the art of navigation. They have sophisticated traditional knowledge of how to use the wind, stars, clouds, fish and birds as navigational aids:

    The truly great navigators ... can identify the presence of distant atolls of islands beyond the visible horizon simply by watching the reverberation of waves across the hull of the canoe, knowing full well that every island group in the Pacific has its own refractive pattern that can be read with the same ease with which a forensic scientist would read a fingerprint.
    The book is based on Wade Davis's 2009 CBC radio Massey Lectures. You can listen to him deliver the lecture on-line at http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/massey/2009/episode-2.html

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    I expect to be a navigator always was such a highly respected profession because the hunter gatherers were always on the move, whether on land or on the sea, and they needed to know the safest passages through what might be hostile territory or stormy seas. The earliest navigators were also shamans who would, like weather shamans today, not only know the currents but also calm the winds if necessary.

    The word navigator comes from a similar Sanskrit word derived from 'navia' meaning 'navy' and it passed into Indo European usage. There is a Vedic god called Skanda, son of Shiva. And we have a land mass in the northern hemisphere called Skandinavia (Scandinavia).

    The Indians are convinced that the Vikings were in fact Indians from Skanda's navia. There's a lot of other evidence besides that, mainly linguistic, and I wouldn't be surprised if one day it turns out to be true.

    The most famous Vedic navigator was Maya the Navigator, or Maya Danava, and he was supposed to have discovered South America, around 5,000 years ago.
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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    "The most famous Vedic navigator was Maya the Navigator, or Maya Danava, and he was supposed to have discovered South America, around 5,000 years ago."

    The west coast of South America I presume?

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Quote Originally Posted by stephjn
    In his book The Wayfarers: Why ancient wisdom matters in the modern world, author Wade Davis writes about the extraordinary navigational abilities of Polynesian seafarers. Navigators or wayfinders as they are called, have the highest status in Polynesian society. They are raised from childhood to learn the art of navigation. They have sophisticated traditional knowledge of how to use the wind, stars, clouds, fish and birds as navigational aids:

    The truly great navigators ... can identify the presence of distant atolls of islands beyond the visible horizon simply by watching the reverberation of waves across the hull of the canoe, knowing full well that every island group in the Pacific has its own refractive pattern that can be read with the same ease with which a forensic scientist would read a fingerprint.
    The book is based on Wade Davis's 2009 CBC radio Massey Lectures. You can listen to him deliver the lecture on-line at http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/massey/2009/episode-2.html
    I love that you shared this interesting bit. Tracking is another skill once achieved in great "art" form. ...skill levels and achievements that seem impossible to most of us today! Reading the subtle sign of our environment and making sense of all the interactions and connections is not an academic feat -- not past a certain low level of performance. Only intuitive free-rein and a deep respect for "Nature" can take one farther.

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Quote Originally Posted by tree
    Reading the subtle sign of our environment and making sense of all the interactions and connections is not an academic feat -- not past a certain low level of performance. Only intuitive free-rein and a deep respect for "Nature" can take one farther.
    This whole notion of "tracking" or "navigation" is starting to have a lot more profound implications for me. It's a key concept in Peter Kingsley's work describing the spiritual practices and insights of the Greek philosopher Parmenides and the art of incubation.

    Then comes Parmenides' reference to "steering". As any Greek knew, the only way of steering horses or a chariot - or a ship across the ocean - was through metis. To be able to steer one had to know all the tricks of the road or the sea, to be watching, completely in the moment. Allowing one's mind to wander was not allowed.

    Always it was a matter of keeping both eyes on the path ahead; looking out for warnings and, above all, for anything that could serve as a signpost or sign. But it was also a matter of listening, of being fully alert in every sense. Even a minute of deafness or blindness and one was lost. ...
    The way in which Kingsley describes the quality of metis is strikingly similar to what Wade Davis describes as the quality of intense alertness that the Polynesian navigators cultivated and required in order to navigate on their journeys across the trackless ocean.

    It appears that the same qualities are needed to navigate on a spiritual journey from illusion to reality, stillness and alertness.

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Quote Originally Posted by stephjn
    Quote Originally Posted by tree
    Reading the subtle sign of our environment and making sense of all the interactions and connections is not an academic feat -- not past a certain low level of performance. Only intuitive free-rein and a deep respect for "Nature" can take one farther.
    This whole notion of "tracking" or "navigation" is starting to have a lot more profound implications for me. It's a key concept in Peter Kingsley's work describing the spiritual practices and insights of the Greek philosopher Parmenides and the art of incubation.

    Then comes Parmenides' reference to "steering". As any Greek knew, the only way of steering horses or a chariot - or a ship across the ocean - was through metis. To be able to steer one had to know all the tricks of the road or the sea, to be watching, completely in the moment. Allowing one's mind to wander was not allowed.

    Always it was a matter of keeping both eyes on the path ahead; looking out for warnings and, above all, for anything that could serve as a signpost or sign. But it was also a matter of listening, of being fully alert in every sense. Even a minute of deafness or blindness and one was lost. ...
    The way in which Kingsley describes the quality of metis is strikingly similar to what Wade Davis describes as the quality of intense alertness that the Polynesian navigators cultivated and required in order to navigate on their journeys across the trackless ocean.

    It appears that the same qualities are needed to navigate on a spiritual journey from illusion to reality, stillness and alertness.
    Nicely put
    BTW, you are MUCH more well-read than I can claim to be.
    We do have a bit of something in common, however. I work part-time as an elementary librarian -- little tid-bit which I have been meaning to share with you

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Navigation is what the dowser utilises.
    Sorry I have to mention field again.
    The field of each person can interact with all other fields.
    I could set You off on a sixpence, land You on a sixpence thousands of miles away, then return You to the origonal sixpence.
    No silly compass or any such devices involved.
    I would simply navigate to the signal pathway, just as the humming bird does, just as the salmon does.
    It is best thought of as a radio, it can atune to multiple signals, but if You tune to one, thats all it will connect with.
    I am the same, and I can simply think of anywhere, anyone, anything, and my rods will orientate to that specific source of what I am thinking of.
    There are no barriers to this system, as the universe is a solid, all of creation is accumulations of field and field compounds, and they are all unique.
    This is easier to do when I have experienced the specific field signal, but it's how remote viewers operate in been able to concentrate on a very specific place or person until they home in on that, then they can atune and pick up the signals and play the scene on their holographic construction system.

    I have done this by accident and seen things , it happens at high stress or such times, I don't practise at such as I think it takes immense concentration and time.
    Cropredy

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Cropredy

    I can do remote viewing pretty easily, but there are two considerations.

    Firstly, the ethical considerations about peering into people's lives. I could ask to be shown you right now, in your house, sitting at your computer or having a cup of tea and chatting with your wife. But I wouldn't do that because it's an invasion of privacy.

    But secondly, remote viewing is not much good for finding things. I've been asking my spirits lately to help me find a number of things, and they do ... they take me straight to it. But then I don't know where I am. Once they took me directly to a computer ... that computer could have been anywhere on the planet, except we did eventually zoom out and it was snowy mountain scene with sparsely planted firs. So that's still wasn't much help!

    I can see how it would be good for spying, though... and I think the CIA have also realised that.
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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Ishtar,
    Seconds ago I was asked what I thought of a book called Phsycic warrier, all about remote viewing, and nothing to do with this site.
    We seem to be nearing a convergance?
    Time and events are happening fast and together.
    I don't have a wife, I do have an ex wife , but don't view her, not without protection, She has a turbo charged broom stick.
    From what I have gleaned talking with those at the top of intelligence services , I mean the top, the women are best remote viewers, especially the green eyed russian red heads.
    The man many films are loosely about, gave me the name...Navigator, with no explanation, He's still alive, irish background not Scottish as portrayed, a great mind and someone of trully exceptional talents.
    Think in terms of a centurian of time, His successor is currently having problems with travelling in time, there are consequences and strange memory loss to deal with, similer to dreaming, as the memory is in the field, not in the operating system.
    We owe these people a great debt, and history, it's a long story.
    Cropredy

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Quote Originally Posted by cropredy
    IHis successor is currently having problems with travelling in time, there are consequences and strange memory loss to deal with, similer to dreaming, as the memory is in the field, not in the operating system.
    Abso - flippin' - lootely! It' s so annoying when you lose something on the way back and that's a skill I am having to practise myself. Sometimes, I actually put a small lapel microphone on my blouse before journeying and then talk about what's happening into a tape recorder as I go along.

    When teaching someone to journey, I also use this method, and record it. And one thing I've noticed is that whenever they get a really strong message in a journey, or one that really digs down deep into their problem, when they come back they can tell you everything that happened but they always miss out that really vital bit. The more important it is, the more they're likely to miss it out, to forget it. And I'm sure I'm no different.
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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Ishtar,
    I am going to struggle now to describe something which isn't mine to describe, but I can relay what I have gleaned from the man himself.
    Imagine the most brilliant man possible with everything going for him, a multi multi linguist with instant recall of anything he views, and him been trained by the best of the best, and him been interrogated by one of the tolstoys and given a choice, and a year to make that choice, and been told he would be terminated by the Russian if he wasn't true.
    And he chose to accept, and to work for all, not self.
    Then contemplate having a device that allows physical time travel, not just none physical, and there are rules to time travel, including knowing that he couldn't prevent his own sister from drowning, that history has to be as it is, but, and it's a big but, history is what it is because????
    Cropredy

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Gosh, cropredy ... I'm reading this at six in the morning, fresh from my bed with no coffee yet, let alone breakfast ... and your question has completely done my head in! Given the scenario we've discussed through quantum physics and the missing G bit of Maxwell's theory acting as the spinning vector, then what does that make history? Jeez... I don't know! I also don't know why you can't change it if your sister's drowning. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that you can't change events because then the whole house of cards will come tumbling down. But you have to ask yourself, what then is the house of cards, who built is and what is its purpose? And these questions are huge ones, and especially at this time of the morning! :P I understand perfectly the purpose of life but not the purpose of history. Unless it is to provide a path to faciliate the purpose of life for humans, but in retrospect, then, why does history matter? It is as if a trail has to be left undisturbed, for some reason. Does your Irish friend know?
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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    Ishtar,
    If You saved Your sister, then She did not drown.
    That then would not be Your history.
    If You saved your sister and she survived, then Your sister needs to have survived in Your history.
    You can't have it both way's.
    But History has it is, is.
    And what has occured has occured, and who know's what has been done to achieve NOW?

    As an example, compte St germain, said to have turned up at the signing of the declaration of independance and given a speech, that occured in history, so who was he?
    To be or not to be, that is the question, who was He?
    Imagine living multiple lives,long lives, but been able to return here to yourself seemingly seconds after leaving.
    We do this in effect, but in 4D, and forget, we download our information into higher dimensions, and return to a new vessel.
    You don't get TOLD, trails are left, clues are left, but only those who are like blood hounds will sense the scent of the trail, and You will sense those others who are capable of following the scent.
    Do You ever wonder where script writers find material?
    Dr Who?

    Cropredy

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    crop, ish

    really enjoying reading these threads, from remote viewing to dr. who.! i have said before that i am not academic (thick even!) but instinctivly seem to stumble around these trails you speak off crop. Incidentally the man who wrote the very first 10 episodes of Dr. who..and who invented the Tardis, (Time and relative dimension in space) was an australian with irish/scottish ancestry.He also wrote a book called Gargantuan (meteorites). And his son has just started writing(downloading) space material. What a wonderful universe this is. xx

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    Default Re: Polynesian seafarers did reach America pre Columbus

    The Polynesians use 2 main ways to navigate.
    By the stars at night to get into the general vanity of the target island and then by wave refraction to home in on it.

    Each island had a star right above it that was memorized as the one to aim for.

    Since most of the islands are volcanic and have at least on good sized peak there is also almost always a cloud of a tropical island since the moist wind will hit the mountain climb up and condense.

    There are also flocks birds fishing in the up swell currents that occur around islands.


    http://thenonist.com/index.php/thenonis ... ck_charts/


    http://dalje.com/en-lifestyle/ancient-p ... nce/227973

    http://pvs.kcc.hawaii.edu/navigate/hold.html
    (Note the subject buttons across the top)


    They had to come up with these ways since neither the Pole Star or the Southern Cross was of much use to them given their back and forth across the Equator trips.

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