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Thread: Ancient Aliens Theory Debunked

  1. #41
    Forum Elder Cognito's Avatar
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    Ish, thank you for posting Logic 101.

    All too often, people enter into discussions with preconceived notions that tend to cloud their rational thinking. Many ideas are nothing more than hypotheses and if someone can demonstrate a testable anomaly that defies the hypothesis, then it's time to revise or reject the hypothesis and alter one's thinking. Going off on a rant or tangent will not suffice, and lowering oneself to ad hominem attacks is not allowed.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with posting about the most unbelievable, inane subjects available ... as long as the poster willing to accept the consequences by either backing up the post with reliable facts, or changing his/her initial viewpoint.

    Faulty logic will be rewarded appropriately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishtar View Post
    Unfortunately, there are some young people watching these movies for whom reality has blurred into fiction and for them that movie would be proof enough that aliens visited Earth. People are not taught to think anymore in schools. They are not encouraged to use logic; they are unable to present an argument for why they believe what they believe and don't in fact, even seem to see the need for it and can get quite angry with you if you expect it.This has been a deliberate piece of social engineering and it is continuing.
    The aliens in various genres of fiction typically look like humans or have very human-like goals and motivations since they are human creations afterall. If such fictional creatures are understood as just that, non-existent and fictional beings like the denizens of Middle-earth, then there's no problem. It's fun escapism to watch a film or to read a tale about aliens and alien worlds (i.e. the John Carter stories) and some writers like to speculate on what non-human life might be like but... Since I'm somewhat familiar with the science behind space travel and the efforts of SETI (unsuccessful so far) I'd have to say I'm skeptical of the claims of the ancient alien people. It makes a good staple of fiction, sure, but the claims strain believability more often than not. Nothing stops people from believing what they want to believe however-- such as the so-called Jedi who follow the "Jedi religion." These goofballs just apply to monism a term culled from popular science fiction.

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    If such fictional creatures are understood as just that, non-existent and fictional beings like the denizens of Middle-earth, then there's no problem.
    Of course, some people can't do that.

    Attached Images Attached Images

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    I have no idea why that picture came out twice.

    Must be more of that "low magic."

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    Is this the Annual General Meeting of SETI, Min? I think I recognise Zeno, there... second from the left?
    Last edited by Ishtar Babilu Dingir; October 18th, 2012 at 10:36 AM.
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    Ancient Aliens is taking a beating lately. I agree that they sensationalize most of their subject matter. I think the most unexplainable factor in all of it is the construction of megalithic structures. I would wager that these structures took much longer to build than the partly line is telling us and that contributes to how 'amazing' they are.

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    Yes, I sort of agree with that. We are asked to accept that 3 kings of the 4th dynasty build enduring monuments to the ravages of time but somehow the first king of the fifth dynasty, Userkaf, was some shmuck who didn't know how to pile rocks up.



    All of this "aliens" crap is an argument from personal incredulity. "I don't know how they did it - therefore "aliens." It is more commonly seen in religion (substitute "god" for "aliens" ) but the principal is the same.

    The basic equation of Egyptologists is 4th Dynasty Egyptians + Bronze Age technology + 20 years = pyramid

    Any of those terms can be attacked but the 20 year bit is enforced by the belief that these were tombs-and-tombs-only.Get rid of the time limit drawn from the idea that this is how long a pharaoh would live - in spite of the fact that the average reign was closer to 10 years - and it becomes far less "unbelievable."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
    Any of those terms can be attacked but the 20 year bit is enforced by the belief that these were tombs-and-tombs-only.Get rid of the time limit drawn from the idea that this is how long a pharaoh would live - in spite of the fact that the average reign was closer to 10 years - and it becomes far less "unbelievable."
    A further help is to get rid of the idea that the pyramids were tombs for pharoahs. There is no evidence for this. No dead bodies have been found buried in them and so we don't have to connect them to the length of the lifetime of any pharoah.

    I agree with Jeremy Naydler's thesis, that the pyramids were used for shamanic initiations and that what Egyptologists have been thinking were paintings describing the journey at death of the the pharoah are actually depictions of shamanic death-rebirth initiations.

    More here: http://www.ishtarsgate.com/forum/showthread.php?3238-Shamanic-Wisdom-in-the-Pyramid-Texts

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    4th Dynasty Egyptians + Bronze Age technology + 20 years = pyramid
    Thanks, Min, for pointing out the above 19th Century equation. Looking backwards it almost seems believable. But, as you pointed out, most pharaohs really had no idea how long they were going to live and as you pointed out, most of them ruled for about 10 years or so.

    The pyramids make more sense as spanning multiple pharaohs and being public works projects rather than single-purpose tombs which by the way, for the most part, were concealed to prevent future pilferage.

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    Cogs and Ish,

    I recall watching Zahi Hawass - remember him? - on a documentary in which he claimed to have found the tomb of the man who oversaw the workers on the Great Pyramid. The evidence for that claim was underwhelming but that is not even the point. Hawass is standing there next to a sarcophagus..well, let's let them tell the story.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...egypt_1_2.html

    There, he opened the sealed sarcophagus of a man identified by hieroglyphics as Ny Swt Wsrt, believed to be the overseer of the pyramid builders' village.
    Now, the Great Pyramid has all the decoration of a subway ( "Tube" for you Brits!) tunnel. The great pharaoh is buried in anonymity but we are expected to believe that the guy who told the workers which rock to lift gets a sarcophagus with his name on it? Come on.

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    Min, I don't know if I ever told you (probably not!) but part of my initiation while training to be a shaman was to be buried overnight in a grave that I'd dug myself. Given that experience, I am quite open to Jeremy Narby's theory that the Egyptian sarcophagi were used for the same initiatory purpose. Also, in our local Glastonbury church, we have a medieval sarcophagus that appears to have also been used for such a purpose, given the holder for anointing oil and water fixed within it. So I was wondering if this sarcophagus found by Zahi (how could we ever forget him?) contained a dead body which was the result of one of these initiations gone wrong! They could have shut him in and then forgotten to go back and get him out!

    (As you can imagine, quite a lot goes through your mind when you're buried underground overnight ... and that scenario was never far from my thoughts!).

    Yours,

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    Last edited by Ishtar Babilu Dingir; October 22nd, 2012 at 09:24 AM.
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    They could have shut him in and then forgotten to go back and get him out!
    For the proper amount of bribery, pretty much anyone can be 'forgotten'. Maybe Ny Swt Wsrt was a pain-in-the-ass boss who forgot Secretary's Day on the Giza Plateau?

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    Min, I don't know if I ever told you (probably not!) but part of my initiation while training to be a shaman was to be buried overnight in a grave that I'd dug myself.
    That would have put the kibosh on the whole deal for me, Ish. Better one of those Babylonian sex temples. I could go for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
    Better one of those Babylonian sex temples. I could go for that.
    I'm glad to see you've been swotting up on the Sacred Sex Rites of Isis threads, Min. And there was me thinking you were just here for the Romans!
    Last edited by Ishtar Babilu Dingir; October 22nd, 2012 at 09:16 PM.
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    There are just some ideas that beat the hell out of some priest droning on about "jesus," hon.

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