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Thread: Pyramids news

  1. #201
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    "Mubarak. Dude. Egyptians INVENTED writing on the wall. You really should learn to read it."
    It is even too late for that. As I see it the Egyptian military is now down to three options:

    1) Do nothing and let Friday spiral out of control as the protesters march on the presidential palace (where Mubarak is absent, of course).

    2) Disperse the protesters with resulting deaths.

    3) Rid the government of Mubarek and his cohorts (a coup d'état).

    From the above options I would project #3. If so, they are back to 1952 all over again. When? Maybe as early as this weekend.

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognito
    As I see it the Egyptian military is now down to three options:

    1) Do nothing and let Friday spiral out of control as the protesters march on the presidential palace (where Mubarak is absent, of course).
    Extremely unlikely. Those guys have been running the country for 30 years. They're not going to put down their arms and go home now. I'm also wondering whether Mubarak is even in the country. That television studio could have been anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognito
    2) Disperse the protesters with resulting deaths.
    That would make them very unpopular with one of their main paymasters, America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cognito
    3) Rid the government of Mubarek and his cohorts (a coup d'état).

    From the above options I would project #3. If so, they are back to 1952 all over again. When? Maybe as early as this weekend.
    I predict #3 as well, although the coup d'etat will be very much presented as a people's uprising, and the army will be "just doing the will of the people", thus keeping in with their paymasters. The army's been softening the people up for that sort of scenario for days now. And I think it could happen today, as early as after Friday prayers. The people will march on the palace, the army will step in to "keep order" and the people will throw flowers at the tanks.
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  3. #203
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    So ... Mubarek just resigned, turning power over to the military. Translation?

    "You either resign now, dude, or we're deposing you by force."

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    So Hawass is job hunting, that was quick.

    Roy.
    First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Ra ra ra Râland!!!!

    Yesterday was summed up by an old Arabic saying ‎"The Elephant trumpeted and gave birth to a mouse" today that elephant packed his trunk and said goodbye to the circus :P Result!


    Cass )))

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Dear Cass, you must be so relieved for your family!!

    I know your daughter and grandchildren are with you, and assume your son-in-law is still in Cairo, in the Embassy? This must be a very happy day for you all!!

    I've had Al-Jazeera on, on my computer all afternoon. Such amazing emotional scenes going on there. I really hope they can move the army out of the way, once they get their democracy.
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  7. #207
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Zahi lied when he said all antiquities were safe.

    This has just been pubilshed on his blog:

    An investigation has begun to search for the people who have taken these objects, and the police and army plan to follow up with the criminals already in custody. I have said if the Egyptian Museum is safe, than Egypt is safe. However, I am now concerned Egypt is not safe.
    From DrHawass.com

    However, as Dorothy King points out:

    Zahi Hawass has just admitted that his previous claims that nothing was stolen from the Egyptian Museum were ... optimistic - or bull, depending on where one stands on his pro-Mubarak politics. The timing of the admission, soon after the departure of President Mubarak, a man Dr Hawass took to defending on various international news programmes, is also suspicious ... I'll keep updating this post as more information comes in, and it wouldn't surprise me if another list of missing pieces were released soon.

    Photos of some items are available on his blog, and I've included them in this post, and will keep updating it as items are identified. Better colour photos of some of the images have been added to Margaret Maitland's blog here.
    Here is Margaret Maitland's list.

    1. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun being carried by a goddess




    2. Gilded wood statue of Tutankhamun harpooning. Only the torso and upper limbs of the king are missing



    3. Limestone statue of Akhenaten holding an offering table



    4. Statue of Nefertiti making offerings

    5. Sandstone head of an Amarna princess



    6. Stone statuette of a scribe from Amarna

    7. Wooden shabti statuettes from Yuya (11 pieces)



    8. Heart Scarab of Yuya



    In addition, the store house at the Royal Necropolis at Dahshur was broken into, he admits. Update - I was expressing cynicism on Facebook at the De Morgan magazine was looted last night, as Hawass claims, and lo and behold ... someone posted a comment here on the 8th February about it having been looted.
    Thanks to the lovely Dorothy King's PhDiva blog
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Yes Ish! Incredible scenes over the past couple of days..had me switching from BBC, Sky, CNN & Al-Jazeera!

    Now it's down to Egyptian political groups to form credible & sustaining parties to put forward for election.
    Just hope the army are an interim force and don't refuse to hand over power at the next elections, or all Hell will break loose again!

    Exciting times for Egypt but also difficult months ahead to live through...my wish for them is a peaceful solution, but only time, as always, will tell....

    Son-in-law is safe and exhausted, and awaiting eagerly to re-unite with us all...hopefully after Friday's outcome it will not be long now!

    Interesting article about the missing artefacts, saw the gilded statue of Tut. harpooning & Tut being carried by goddess last time I visited the Egyptian Museum in November '10! So will be interested to see what else may be missing.

    Cass

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    That well known they would have a very limited market.

    Roy.
    First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    That well known they would have a very limited market.
    True, but if you have up to USD $57 billion in your bank accounts (ie Mubarak), it's easy to sell them to one of your buddies under the table. Right, Zahi?

  11. #211
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Yep! It would have to be a private buyer Cogs, but I see that that the Swiss banks have frozen his assets. Amazing how fast some rats can desert sinking ship isn't it?

    Roy.
    First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

  12. #212
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Didn't somebody say, further up this thread, that this could be the likely outcome?

    Now we can justify our looting of other nations in retrospect, and jettison our guilt!! Here's Mary Beard, the classics editor of the TLS, on Times Online, trying to justify our Imperalist actions but then gives up when she realises that actually, nowhere is safe.

    Tactless it may be, but I have been itching to say this for several days. The sad looting of the Egyptian Museum in Cairo gives yet another reason why the dispersal of major treasures around the world may be a good thing, not an imperialist crime.

    I don't mean that everything should end up in the British Museum (or the Met, or the Louvre). In the medium to long term, we can't be certain which parts of the world are going to be safest -- whether that is a question or crime, riot, flood or fire. Over the next millennium London may be no less vulnerable than Kabul But we do know that 'all eggs in one basket' is bound to be a bad idea.

    Only a year or so ago, Zahi Hawass was on the Today programme complaining that all the masterpieces of ancient Egyptian art were not in Egypt.

    I hope he is eating his words.

    Hawass certainly has not come well out of the Egyptian turmoils. First of all, he wrongly reassured the world that there had been some damage in the museum, but nothing had been taken. Then a few days later, he actually took a position in Mubarak's dying government...rushing onto a sinking ship as it were (and an uncomfortable indication, I suspect, of where his loyalties lay).

    I am sure we all wish the Egyptians the very best for their revolution (and, in case you are wondering, the son went back there today to start his courses again). And they will have a lot more urgent things on their minds (I hope) than who is going to take charge of antiquities. But when they get round to that bit of the agenda, I hope they will turn to someone who is less of a showman, less self-promoting and just a bit more sensible in their ideas of heritage management.

    Someone who might give up all those ideas about a theme park of replica tombs. Someone who might stop the Mayor of Luxor digging up yet more stuff to .... next year's conservation problem. Someone who will invest in the Greek, Roman, Christian and Islam heritage of Egypt -- as well as the pharaohs.
    Times Online
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  13. #213
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    I think it was me Ish in that I commented that much would have ben lost in the past had it not been bought to western museums.
    We in the west have been guilty of such vandalism in the past as well, just look at Avebury and Stonehenge, but hopefully that is behind us now.

    Roy.
    First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    [quote:2qkz8cz3]I am sure we all wish the Egyptians the very best for their revolution (and, in case you are wondering, the son went back there today to start his courses again). And they will have a lot more urgent things on their minds (I hope) than who is going to take charge of antiquities. But when they get round to that bit of the agenda, I hope they will turn to someone who is less of a showman, less self-promoting and just a bit more sensible in their ideas of heritage management.
    [/quote:2qkz8cz3]

    I hope this is so. The museum badly needs updating...so many of the antiquities are badly showcased & labeled, and some not at all. It should be less about the person who runs it and more about the heritage that lies within it's walls!


    Cass

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Cass, I'm making you our Middle East correspondent!
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    I hope you are joking!


    Cass

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    Default Now the protesters want Zahi to quit ...

    ... join the club, protesters! We've been calling for his head for years!!

    CAIRO (AP) — The man in charge of Egyptian antiquities starred in a TV show about his exploits, sports an "Indiana Jones"-style fedora and triumphantly declared that the nation's heritage was mostly unscathed after the revolt that toppled the president. On Monday, however, he was under siege, the target of angry protesters who want him to quit.

    "Get out," a crowd of 150 archaeology graduates chanted outside the office of Antiquities Minister Zahi Hawass, who threw in his lot with the old order when he accepted a Cabinet post in the last weeks of Hosni Mubarak's rule.

    Whether Hawass, entrusted with preserving Egypt's museums and monuments, will go the way of Mubarak and resign is uncertain. But the scorn directed him at personifies the messy business of transition in a nation, now ruled by the military, where much of the old governing structure remains intact.

    The demonstration in a leafy enclave of Cairo was one of many protests and strikes that have sprung up in Egypt as people voice their grievances for the first time after Mubarak's heavyhanded reign over the last three decades.

    The archaeologists' protest was also deeply personal, with protesters saying Hawass was a "showman" and publicity hound with little regard for thousands of archaeology students who have been unable to find work in their field.

    "He doesn't care about us," said 22-year-old Gamal el-Hanafy, who graduated from Cairo University in 2009 and carried his school certificates in a folder. "He just cares about propaganda."

    Hawass has maintained that his first love is Egypt's heritage, not himself, and that courting publicity raises the national profile.

    The rally was raucous but peaceful. Several soldiers blocked protesters from entering the Supreme Council of Antiquities building in the Zamalek district on an island in the Nile that was largely spared the chaos that gripped Cairo. An armored personnel carrier parked in the street, a helmeted soldier poking out of a hatch.

    The minister did not appear, and a roar of disapproval swept the crowd when someone said he had slipped out the back door. Then there was a rumor, unconfirmed but no less damaging to his image, that his car had clipped a pedestrian. The protesters dispersed at dusk, and promised to return.

    The graduates said the antiquities ministry had offered them three-month contracts at 450 Egyptian pounds ($75) a month, hardly enough to survive. They noted that Egypt's tourism industry is a major foreign currency earner, and yet it was unclear how exactly the government was spending the income.

    A foreign tourist spends up to 160 Egyptian pounds ($27) to visit the pyramids of Giza and descend into a tomb there, said 25-year-old Said Hamid. Multiply that, he said, by the thousands who used to visit daily until upheaval drove away foreign visitors and plunged the lucrative industry into crisis.

    "Where is the money?" said Hamid, a 2007 graduate who works in a travel agency but specialized in restoration of artifacts as a student.

    Unlike lawyers or doctors, who have private options, archaeologists in Egypt mostly rely on the government for jobs. Protesters also complained that less-qualified people secured posts in the antiquities office through "wasta," which translates roughly as connections or influence.

    Hawass' low profile Monday contrasted with his frequent appearances in the past two weeks, inviting international media to the Egyptian Museum where he displayed artifacts damaged by looters and showed how they had bypassed padlocked treasures from the tomb of King Tutankhamun. On Sunday, he said a full inventory found that thieves escaped with 18 items, including two gilded wooden statues of the boy pharaoh.

    Hawass is passionate about his calling, and long campaigned to bring home ancient artifacts spirited out of the country during colonial times. But his flamboyant style is viewed by some as the preening of a self-promoter.

    He wears a handkerchief in the breast pocket of his suit jacket, and sells signed companies of his signature explorer's hat. He featured in a reality-based show on the U.S.-based History Channel called "Chasing Mummies," which includes a scene in which an intern gets locked in a pyramid.

    The government that employs Hawass is a caretaker one, its lifespan limited as Egypt prepares for elections. On Feb. 1, 10 days before Mubarak resigned, Hawass said in an interview with The Associated Press that Egyptians should give the president a chance to reform.

    That was a misjudgment of the hunger for change in the streets, but Hawass inadvertently hit the mark with a personal quotation posted on his website.

    "Many people make the mistake of thinking that dreams cannot come true, but they can," he wrote. "You have to believe, and know that they are more than just imagination."
    From AP hosted by Google
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  18. #218
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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    The graduates said the antiquities ministry had offered them three-month contracts at 450 Egyptian pounds ($75) a month, hardly enough to survive. They noted that Egypt's tourism industry is a major foreign currency earner, and yet it was unclear how exactly the government was spending the income.

    "Where is the money?" said Hamid, a 2007 graduate who works in a travel agency but specialized in restoration of artifacts as a student.
    I would sure like to know how much Zahi has been paying himself. I'm sure that the amount is orders of magnitude more than $75 a month. Selling autographed copies of his Indy Jones hat? Just another scam artist. :roll:

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    Default Re: Pyramids news

    Consider this..the average wage for poorer unskilled workers can vary from 200-300 EGP a month. A junior doctor gets an average of 6,000 EGP.

    His wages must be way, way up in the thousands & thousands!

    The vast majority of Egyptians live on less than $2 per day!

    “He is paid thousands of dollars for each appearance he makes for the Discovery Channel and every time he writes or appears anywhere. The man makes so much money that it is no wonder he tries to curtail other opinions,” an Egyptian researcher told Bikya Masr. The researcher, who works for the SCA, says that “everyone in the council knows what goes on, but he is the boss and his rules go, so there is little we can do.”

    from here: http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/?p=27371

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    Default Hawass accused of profiting from stolen antiquities

    This is a transcript of an interview that you can watch on if you understand Arabic. It is an interview with a high ranking Egyptian known as the Manager of Antiquity Locations and he is now accusing Hawass of profiting from antiquities.

    Reporter: Can you start by saying what you have submitted to the high court of Egypt?

    [Nour el din abdel samad - "Manager of antiquity locations" in the ministry of antiquities] I sent about 1600 documents all of them within the period of Hawas and Farouk Hosni's tenure, some documents are of financial contents others are of historical artifacts, whether these artifacts were in the museum or were held in inventory.

    But we are stressing on 29 crimes that have taken place and are documented. We hope the high court takes immediate action against the perpetrators and at least freeze all of their assets, whom Farouk Hosni heads them, not only was the Minister of Culture but also the Head of the Antiquities Department set be the Presidential decree #82 in 1984 by ex-President Mubarak.

    Reporter: OK lets start talking about the crimes.

    Well the crimes are that there was so many projects headed by the antiquities authority costing billions of pounds (1-usd = 6-pounds) that turn out were fictitious in nature and never existed, and currently the antiquities authority's current bank balance is zero, they've stolen all the antiquities money, and it used to be one of the richest ministries of the state, that's just one part.

    In terms of antiquities I will mention a quick incident. 38 artifacts were stolen from the Cairo museum and the minister did not want word to get out about it. A reporter wrote about it in a newspaper and the minister had to address it, these 38 gold pieces according to the museum were worth 1.5 billion dollars. These items were discovered missing in 2004, of course it's a crime and was treated such as and the issue was forwarded to an investigating body (the police) oddly enough from 2004 to this day the investigation was never completed. We know who did it but we do not have enough evidence to say there names. Just to tell you that for an investigation to be dragged for so long, it has to come from above Zahi Hawas.

    It has to come from way above him and way above Farouk Hosni himself. Worse then this we used to submit greater offense to the high court of artifacts being stolen from the vaults and we found out that Zahi Hawas had written and signed a document stating that there wouldn't be any investigating in these matters and I urge you to understand that this couldn't have happened unless it was ordered from way above these two guys, Hawas and Hosni.

    [Minute 5.00]

    Reporter: Tell us more.

    For instance do you remember a while back the National Geographic team that came and started poking at the pyramids?

    They were all supposedly Americans with American passports. Well they were Zionists and let me tell you what they were doing.

    Even Susan Mubarak greeted them and gave them (medal of something). What did they do?

    Well they sold the rights to 144 channels worldwide each channel paying 5 million dollars (700 million in total) to see and show the world what they were about to discover. Remember they made holes and holes inside the Great Pyramid (September 2002) and discovered a door. On this door they claim that there was proto sinaitic signs on it, this is not true and was planted and tampered with (they are even on the Hawas website). The Jews claim that their language originated from proto sinaitic signs. so that they can claim it as clear evidence that the Great Pyramid was built by them. As you know the Zionist's claim their land to be from the Euphrates to the Nile. So they used this as a stunt from whom they were about to discover something amazing in the great pyramid and instead they find proto sinaitic signs. Hmm even worse during the live broadcast Dr Mervat Mohsen Mohamed daughter of the renowned writer said live on TV, we have just discovered the first signs of the Taurus [possibly they mean the Tora? Ish] in the Great Pyramid, that's one of the things these guys were up too. That's how far they have gone and sold their country.

    They didn't stop there, they went into the royal mummies and claimed (Susan Mubarak was involved) this project took a few years. DNA tests were performed and millions were spent, results were carried outside of Egypt and it was claimed that Egyptians were involved in this research. Dr Saleh Bedir (world renowned) was assigned to this project of DNA research to research the royal mummies, this man I respect so much resigned and stopped working with the research team and claimed it was a Zionist project aimed at getting certain results that were unfounded.

    This project claimed by Hawas to be Egyptian-foreign in it's findings was not Egyptian at all and the only person from our side (Egypt) had resigned and left the project. Most of its finds and research were done outside of Egypt.

    [Minute 10:21]

    When I enter an inventory vault and see missing pieces I have to call the authorities and even contact the Interpol, Zahi would get upset and downplay this. Because if we claim them as missing then we can claim them as stolen and try to retrieve them back, if they are never claimed as stolen to begin with, then we can never claim them back even if they resurface and that's the real danger. Whenever we would claim something as stolen he would get furious and say we want stability and stop claiming such things, of course this was not in Egypt's interest.

    For instance I once went to claim something stolen in Marina. The person in charge was removed from his post (a high ranking officer), I don't know how they did this and then, well let's just say the person who stole the artifact was caught and admitted to the theft. Now Zahi was so upset with me that he tried to get my colleagues to turn against me and try to have me stop reporting of such thefts. I have witnesses who have heard Hawas saying verbally let Nour el din take the rap for this one and I have asked the high court to reopen this case.

    [12:32]

    Another case even more gruesome, a COMPLETE temple was with all its artifacts was sold to a Gulf prince.
    Mr Ibrahim Abdel Meguid who is in charge of repatriating all stolen and lost artifacts had asked for a Judiciary committee to investigate the theft of the temple was refused by Zahi Hawas and then fired, what do we say to that. Everything I say to you is documented and proven.

    Something else, when he is sent a confidential document for his eyes only (Zahi) we want to do certain stuff to the royal mummies documents coming from the National Geographic team backed by a Zionist intensions is extremely dangerous for us. I've also passed this info on to the proper authorities, but unfortunately nothing happened (during the Mubarak reign).

    [Minute 18:00]

    90% of Egyptian artifacts are still underground and when the riots broke out, digs emerged all over the place and all the top brass denied anything was stolen, in Alexandria alone 14 case were reported today of stolen artifacts. Now that we have this transparency going on and you've been caught lying to the people about the stolen artifacts during the riots the least you can do is resign now (Hawas). You are not wanted by the people, Hosni Mubarak placed you in charge, he is gone now it's your turn.

    When Hawas lied about the safety of all archeological sites and artifacts saying they were safe, the military didn't look much into it and did not try to secure the sites, Hawas is to blame for this and must pay for these claims.

    [Minute 25:00]

    We were doing a show in Paris, l'institue du Monde Arabe, the Institute of the Arab World.

    Funny, next to our booth the Israelis had a booth with Egyptian Artifacts, weird the Israelis have Egyptian artifacts?

    Even when we had them return all artifacts they took from Sinai, I myself was one of the people who was involved in documenting what had been taken by them and returned. Some of the stuff were, dead Egyptian Soldier boots and some broken pottery to no value. Moshe Dayan Museum has Egyptian stuff they have never returned and they displayed it in Paris next to our booth. 6 months ago. He is saying that the Mossad is involved and he is quoting the previous Mossad head in saying we have implanted roots in Egypt that will take at least 50 years to remove. He is saying Hawas is involved from what he's been witnessing along the years.

    ***
    My interpretation (translator's interpretation)

    What he is saying that the Israelis are involved in trying to change the history of Egypt to suit their needs, so that in the future they can get public opinion (worldwide) on their side when they decide to take back their promised land.

    He didn't talk about anything specific being stolen from the museum but has implicated Hawas in numerous wrong doingson a great scale and that the proper authorities had been notified. and his final words he begged the head of the Army to remove Hawas NOW before it's too late.
    Transcript from Sott Net
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